150+ Page legal document issued to #OccupyVictoria

What issues are you passionate about resolving? What are your proposed solutions? Engage with the community at large to evolve a plan of action.

150+ Page legal document issued to #OccupyVictoria

Postby techjedi » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:47 pm

As per: http://occupyvictoria.ca/announcements/city-of-victoria-applies-for-court-order-150-page-legal-document/

"Today the City of Victoria applied for a court order to remove OccupyVictoria protestor tents from Centennial Square. Several kilograms of legal paperwork were thus distributed by officials to on-site protesters. Each copy of the legal document contains some 150+ pages, which; in order to spare a few trees, we’ve decided to convert all the paperwork into 21st century digital PDF files that you may download for free. Unfortunately, the document was so lengthy, it wouldn’t fit into our scanners in one go, so you will need to download two separate files that make-up the entire document."


What do you think about this application for court injuction by the City to effectively attempt to shut down the OccupyVictoria movement?
techjedi
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:53 am

Re: 150+ Page legal document issued to #OccupyVictoria

Postby Mysticl » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:11 pm

Do we have legal representation? If not, does Occupy Vancouver? They may be willing to assist. From the sounds of it we have 5 days after receiving the document to respond legally (see pg 13) . That may include whether we intend to fight this in court as Vancouver has done. If we do not respond in 5 days we may forego our right to fight this in court. I am no lawyer but deadlines usually have consequences.
User avatar
Mysticl
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:56 pm

Re: 150+ Page legal document issued to #OccupyVictoria

Postby sync » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:49 am

Vancouver hearing was postponed!

Quote from the Globe and Mail:

The City of Vancouver's application for an injunction to clear the tents from the Occupy Vancouver encampment has been adjourned until Wednesday morning.

The brief delay was agreed to in order to provide more time for the protesters to find a lawyer to represent them.

Vancouver had taken the lead in Canada to seek an end to its protest encampment, one of many that have erupted across the country to support the Occupy movement originating in New York City.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le2228154/
sync
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:29 pm

Re: 150+ Page legal document issued to #OccupyVictoria

Postby anti_the_antis » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:48 pm

Let's can the rhetoric and speak honestly for a bit.

This is not a 150+ page legal document meant to bury the occupation in paperwork. I've noticed some of the initial commentary offered by @AnushkaInRepair about this being a tactic to overwhelm the movement has been deleted, indicating that you must all be aware at how severely you're misrepresenting this thing.

I looked at the PDFs. It's a maximum of 15 double-spaced pages of simple legal argument, expressed in clear terms. It takes no more than 10-15 minutes to read and understand exactly what the court orders are about. The rest of the document is simply the sum of the evidence which supports the simple facts alleged in the legal documents: statements, accounts of events, pictures, and diagrams. Nothing in the package is so hard to understand so as to require a law degree.

The Occupation's response to the documents is, likewise, simple. It's a two-fold argument:

(1) The fact asserted that the whole of the square must be clear to setup for Christmas festivities is false. The occupiers are happy to move their tents around as needed to facilitate access to different areas. The small hardship of needing to communicate does not make this unreasonable or impossible.

(2) Regardless of the factual error above stated, the occupiers enjoy protection of their encampment which trumps the interest of the City in having the square clear. The Constitution grants rights to freedom of association and freedom of speech; precedent says that the city can't kick out overnight campers from public lands. There are two different characterizations of the occupation, depending on time of day: after-hours, the tents are a camp; during the day, the tents are a protest. As such: the right of the tents to stay at night is protected by precedent which the court can't change; the right of the tents to stay during the day is argued as being a necessary part of the freedoms of speech and association of the protestors.

See? It's NOT a big deal. Just walk a couple blocks to the courthouse, go up to the top floor to the law library, grab a copy of BC Civil Procedure, and have your submission to the court drafted by lunch. Then walk around the square and get a half dozen affidavits from occupiers and submit them alongside your response. Voila! A 150+ page response to the 150+ submission by the city, all within one working day.


...all that said, please clear out of the square. This Victorian is sick and tired of the mess it's become. At this point, the cause for which you fight is being hobbled by the intense negative public sentiment which has coalesced in response to the occupation here in Victoria. Yes, you may have a thousand or so people who support you. However, they're already on your side. The ones you need to win over in order to actually cause some sort of change are the rest of the 300,000 people in this city who are fed up and want you out. The longer you stay, the less open their ears become and the more solidified their opposition to you grows. For their sake, and for the sake of the public image of your cause, clear out the square. Do it quickly, do it peacefully, leave the place tidier than when you found it, and produce some self-congratulatory press release trumpeting the awareness which the 26-day occupation brought to important issues and all the hungry people who were fed for free. If you still want to fight the city in court for the principle of the thing, go for it. Just don't keep shooting yourselves in the foot.
anti_the_antis
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: 150+ Page legal document issued to #OccupyVictoria

Postby anti_the_antis » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:19 am

I see the declaration posted on paov.ca today. Though I'm sure I'm not the only one who suggested it, I want to thank you for possibly listening to my words and making a move to end the occupation.

Here's what I said on Wednesday:

...for the sake of the public image of your cause, clear out the square. Do it quickly, do it peacefully, leave the place tidier than when you found it, and produce some self-congratulatory press release trumpeting the awareness which the 26-day occupation brought to important issues and all the hungry people who were fed for free


We've got the press release and we've got an attempt to save the public image of the cause. Now, finish the job. Leave the square. Don't wait for the fire department and don't wait for the cops. Keep your dignity and do it yourself.
anti_the_antis
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: 150+ Page legal document issued to #OccupyVictoria

Postby MrMiles2012 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:23 am

The Post by anti-the-antis is an interesting one. But, overall shows that he/she seems to have the 'mindset' of the 1% and is not truly dedicated to the Democratic mandate of the PAOV movement.

- He/she summarily outlines some of the inadequacies of the Injunction filed by 'The Corporation of The City of Victoria'.
- He/she then closes the Post by asking the PAOV to "clear the Square." Which is also what 'The Corporation of The City of Victoria' is also attempting to do!

I ask, where does your loyalty lie? And why are you not respecting the Constitutional rights and desires of the PAOV?

In summary, it is my opinion that the reply written by the PAOV is adequate up to this point. The court has ALREADY made a ruling re:the camping/tenting in Public parks, in the past, and ' The Corporation of The City of Victoria' is FULLY aware of this.
Therefore, it is repeating a past court action and expecting a DIFFERENT outcome. All this at the waste of taxpayers money.
( Does this not fit the definition of 'Insanity'?? )
By filing an Injunction against a 'supposed' violation, when it knows FULLY that none exists, is a 'criminal act' in and of itself.
By doing this 'The Corporation of The City of Victoria' has opened itself wide open to a Class Action Lawsuit by the PAOV if it so desires.
This is only the 'tip of the iceberg' in regards to the number of violations 'The Corporation of The City of Victoria' has committed upon the PAOV by the filing of this Injunction, and the full summary of said violations would take a FULL 2 pages to cover. Re: Canadian Constitution,Human Rights Act, World Health Organization (of which Canada is a member) etc.

MrMiles2012
MrMiles2012
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:13 am

Re: 150+ Page legal document issued to #OccupyVictoria

Postby anti_the_antis » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:40 am

MrMiles, you seem to have missed my point. It's simple: the occupiers might just be able to wage a successful legal battle against the City of Victoria; however, doing so will cause the occupiers to lose public support and ultimately alienate those they need to draw in. Broad public sentiment is crystallizing against Occupy Victoria (despite the fact that there is a small and committed group of vocal supporters who wants to think otherwise) and the people who need to hear the message which the occupiers bring are closing their ears to it as a result of prejudices and dismissal of the movement as a whole.

In order to bring effective change, there must be effective protest and communication. When we fall into adversarial legal battles, we take sides and harden our opponents thereby creating enmity and closing minds. When we dismiss the irrational fears of the general public who don't know how to deal with the encampment, we allow them to persist in those fears which spread rapidly within their social circles. When we allow a movement to get pinned down to a single action or location, we allow it to become contained, marginalized, and dismissed.

Win the hearts of this city through gracious action; win the minds of this city through persistent action; win the battle against injustice through creative action.
anti_the_antis
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: 150+ Page legal document issued to #OccupyVictoria

Postby ### » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:58 pm

MrMiles2012 wrote:All this at the waste of taxpayers money.
( Does this not fit the definition of 'Insanity'?? )

Money is only paper.

Money is the alienation of human worth via a magical ritual that leaves our value in pieces of paper.

Money is the repression of labor.

Money legitimizes property ("hoarding").

http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/money.html

anti_the_antis wrote:When we fall into adversarial legal battles, we take sides and harden our opponents thereby creating enmity and closing minds.

The #occupy legal "battle" is a joke, a pun, a farce. That's the point.

It's not a "battle", it's détournement,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9tournement
User avatar
###
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:17 pm

Re: 150+ Page legal document issued to #OccupyVictoria

Postby xtofury » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:56 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srSShS-2j5E

I filed my defense how about you? Or are you all letting Anishka do that for you while she thinks Centennial Square is not a park.

Page 6 of the 1st half's pdf clearly states that it indeed IS A PARK, so thankfully one of us is providing that angle towards the legal defense.

The judge cannot order you to not have tents at any time other than 7am-7pm, the rest you are lawfully allowed to do.

This is the ruling for temporary structures in parks:
http://www.bccla.org/othercontent/08Vic ... _Adams.pdf

And here is the canadian charter of rights that states I can be in that square protesting any time I so choose to:
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/charter/p ... l_I-gb:s_2
xtofury
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:40 pm


Return to 'Occupy' MOVEMENT DISCUSSION AREA

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron